Help Saddam return to power.

[Gene Simmons]

If we help Saddam get back in power he will kill all the Muslims that helped the West and even those who didn't.
The world has less Muslims. The people on this web site are happy because now a killer of his own people is back in power and the west is out of Iraq, which they want to be. (ok ok I know you don't believe that because your a Muslim and the west always lies and even though we could conquer you at anytime we just decided now would be a good time to start taking over the world...yea right..anyway)

Everyone goes home happy if Saddam comes back!

[Dhzokhar]

Only because the USA and Britain gets out of Iraq doesnt mean that Sadamme will come back into power. the Iraqis dont trust the USA, that is clear and even more clear with this resistance. What iraq needs is a coalition government represeting all major religions and ethnic minorities-Kurds, Sunnis and Shias at least, with a UN insentive. ISAF teams to be dispatched to all major towns and cities to not only keep the peace but to organise the local police forces and the new Iraqi army loyal to the coalition. What the Iraqis dont want is a Bosnia style situation with some british or USA MP, in bosnias case paddy ashdown, who harld knows anything about the country and the country going no where but back to war. Bosnia has been forgotton, will the same happen to iraq? If the USA and Birtish have there way, then the answer is probably yes.

[Gene Simmons]

First of all have the sense to know when someone is being mocked.

Second of all the United States never invaded Bosnia. Were some US troops there as part of a UN peackeeping team,yes. But the very orginization you say to we should be using is the one that f**ked up Bosina.
With Iraq the US and Britian are having their way. They told the UN to go screw themselves and went in without the UN.
If you had any sense you might see that that is why this time it may turn out different then Bosnia where the UN troops weren't allowed to shoot anyone.

[Dhzokhar]

First of all I know you are mocking. The fact you come up with this ignorant statement to show if you do not support the USA you support sadamme shows that you have no idea about the complexity of the situation in Iraq. people dont want sadamme but they dont want the impereliast power, that gave him the weaponry to to rule their nation and fight Iran, either.
I am saying we should be using the teams used in Khabul in Afghanistan , the ISAF teams that will represent the UN. Look at the USA troops. That have killed civilians who have gathered and demaned their withdrawl and they have shot civilians armed with rocks. Now nearly everyday at least 1 soldier is killed everyday. The ISAF teams should make it a proirity to train the local authorities and armies to keep the peace.

'If you had any sense you might see that that is why this time it may turn out different then Bosnia where the UN troops weren't allowed to shoot anyone.'-This makes no sense. have you been watching the news and seen what is happening to USA troops. Yes the USA and Britain have gone into Iraq without the UN but the UN has been on the forfront demanding authority in the rebuilding of Iraq. The Iraqi people want the troops out, are you saying with thei given pwoers, the USA troops should shoot every Iraqi demanding their removal? LOL is this democary?

Gene your posts make no sense. Do you want the iraqis to become independant with their own government or dependant on the USA? By what you are saying it sound like the former. Second of all you have very limited knoledge on Bosnia. there was resistance against UN troops, the KLA was on the side of the UN and the USA went into Bosnia without the UN too. You need to read up. Second of all you donot seem to know about ISAF teams and what they have been doing in Khabul in keeping the peace, you need to read up on this too since that is the core of my example for the kind of peace keeping unit needed in Iraq rather then the Bosnia units. Third Bosnia is a testament and a mess of a country dependant still on western nations, who know very little about the country and people, as it goes back in war.

[AnwarAmir]

GeneSimmons; a nice piece of ironic "judgment". But let's see: <<Saddam get back in power he will kill all the Muslims that helped the West >> ** beyond doubt, he was a brutal dictator and his rule was inhuman, and while his predecessors from AbdulQarim Qasim over Abel-Salam Arif and Abdul-Rahman Arif to his uncle General Ahmed Hassan al-Bakr have advanced Iraq and brought living standard (in 1978) up to the standards of Australia, Saddam managed to bring it down to that of Rwanda. BUT the population during his reign grew considerably. It may have escaped your attention BUT YOU happen ALSO to be "on this WEBsite, and so presumably ALSO are happy ...." ! <<< we could conquer you at anytime we just decided now would be a good time to start taking over the world >> ** In Afghanistan, the Taliban have just taken over a provincial capital which happens to be just beside a (somewhat sleepy ? ) US army base. In Iraq, where British forces in spite of their historical predicament are successful to some extent, the matters in the US-controlled zones are clearly a mess. Mr Powell mentioned things which work again. Nice, but even if with US-help, primarily thanks to the works of local people. In short, YES, you CAN CONQUER whatever but apparently are too dull to understand what the matter is all about, unable to get anything under control, unable to achieve security and order, and as becomes obvious completely inadequate to secure electrical power.

[AnwarAmir]

Dhzokhar; <<< What the Iraqis dont want is a Bosnia style situation with some british or USA MP .......... Bosnia has been forgotton, will the same happen to iraq? >>> First of all, the jobs the USA, in co-operation with the NATO-allies and the UN, have done in Bosnia-Herzegovina and in the Kosovo-territory has been quite good. They, and this was noteable, for once (first time since 1956) acted in favour of Muslim people. In Bosnia-Herzegovina, the problem was that the Bosnian Muslims (Bosniaks) whenever with roughly 45% (Serbian Bosnians 25% and Croatian Bosnians 30%) only controlled about 20-25% of the land-area while the Serbian Bosnians controlled more than 50%. The solution found is the best to be achieved. Bosnia is not forgotten. The WarCrimes Tribunal in DenHaag under the command of indomitable Chief Justice Carla Del Ponte is heavily at work. -- In the Kosovo, what is already achieved is that the Shkipetar Kosovaris (mostly Muslims) in practice have now their own state, even under a provisional status. In the later term there either will be a fully independent Kosovo, or Kosovo will join Albania. --->>>>> No, the situation there and in Iraq cannot be compared, except that both Presidents Milosevic and Saddam are two persons the world can very well do without.

[AnwarAmir]

GeneSimmons; <<With Iraq the US and Britian are having their way. They told the UN to go screw themselves and went in without the UN >> oh, yes, of course, all their way ! Except asking France, Germany and Russia for help. But they should send money, experts, equipment and troops, ALL under US/UK civil and military command and accepting American choices of suppliers and contractors !! THAT now simply is silly and utterly stupid, most arrogant and ignorant ! Beside the point that the ugly mess the USA still have in the Baghdad area is not exactly a show-piece of doing anything themselves ...

[Boxer]

For years the West as well as other parts of the World have been reshaping the Middle East history and landscape. But all of the Middle East problems cannot be blamed on the west. It is true that the Israeli/Palestinian conflict has not been handled correctly, but the WEST is not the only one to blame. Since 1947 no Middle East country has made an effort to provide a reasonable solution to the conflict. These governments don’t want a solution. They need this to continue to divert the people’s attention from the oppression that they are inflicting on their populations. What better way to deflect these injustices than to blame the dissatisfaction of their population on the Israelis and the Ugly Americans? Then you have the Islamic fundamentalist. What do these people what? They complain about the corrupt governments the decadent life style of the west and the Israelis. Wake up people they are just as bad as these oppressive dictatorships. All you need to do is look at Afghanistan and Iran. The Russians destroyed Afghanistan and then the fundamentalist raped and suppressed the people after years of pain. It is sad that after the Russians exited Afghanistan, no other Arab nation came to their aid. They left these people to starve and be taken over by another oppressive regime (Taliban). Yes the west and Russia should have spent billions rebuilding what they destroyed during their war in Afghanistan. You can say that the Cold War was raged in the Middle East look at IRAQ and IRAN. Russians in one side and the WEST in the other side. But these Middle EAST governments also participated in these conflicts. Willingly I must say. Lets talk about Saudi Arabia and the Royal Family. These people have over five hundred billion US dollars invested outside their Kingdome. Why do they have all of this money out side of their country? They should invest this money in education, heath and other social services that would benefit the people of Saudi Arabia. Not just that, but why don’t they invest this money on their neighbors. WHY is what you need to ask your self? Why did Sadam spend billions of the Iraqis money on the 4th biggest army in the world? Why did he neglect his infrastructure? Why did he kill millions of his own? Why does the majority of the Middle East countries what to keep the Palestinians segregated and in refugee camps. Why can Palestinians come to America and live good lives not in a refuge camps and become doctors and professionals. Why you tell me. Why do middle Easy countries ask for aid from the WEST especially the USA? Why. Because their rich neighbors give none to them that why.

[supporter]

I agree with Anwar, keep it up!

[Gene Simmons]

Boxer makes the points you guys never seem to have an answer to.

Anwar your writing is a peice of work. The below statement says "yea sure there was some torture and some killings of Muslim people, but hey were now up to the standard of Australia and isn't that really what matters"?

You're little story about the Afghan base is cute too. Just because you support killing babies doesn't mean you should have to live a life of illusions about everything does it?

, he was a brutal dictator and his rule was inhuman, and while his predecessors from AbdulQarim Qasim over Abel-Salam Arif and Abdul-Rahman Arif to his uncle General Ahmed Hassan al-Bakr have advanced Iraq and brought living standard (in 1978) up to the standards of Australia, Saddam managed to bring it down to that of Rwanda. BUT the population during his reign grew considerably. It may have escaped your attention BUT YOU happen ALSO to be "on this WEBsite, and so presumably ALSO are happy ...." ! <<< we could conquer you at anytime we just decided now would be a good time to start taking over the world >> ** In Afghanistan, the Taliban have just taken over a provincial capital which happens to be just beside a (somewhat sleepy ? ) US army base. In Iraq, where British forces in spite of their historical predicament are successful to some extent, the matters in the US-controlled zones are clearly a mess. Mr Powell mentioned things which work again. Nice, but even if with US-help, primarily thanks to the works of local people. In short, YES, you CAN CONQUER whatever but apparently are too dull to understand what the matter is all about, unable to get anything

[TIME TO BOMB SADDAM]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAUAHAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


SADDAM WILL NEVER RETURN TO POWER. HE HAS BEEN CAUGHT BY THE MIGHTIEST NATION TO EVER EXIST. HE WILL BE SENTENCED TO DEATH. ONE DOWN MANY MORE TO GO HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAHHHAAAAA!!!!!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Paradox]

Okay.

Sadaam caught: good.

What Boxer says is true. It isn't just the West's fault. There are others responsible. But that doesnt stop that the major country in influencing the world with the most power is America, and they are doing what they want when they want. But instead of going off on one, I'll try to answer your questions.

I do agree with you that some of the countries could be using the Palestinian conflict to deflect attention, an interesting view and plausible. But even if all got together, Israel has more militry power than a large amount of the Middle East countries combined, due to being funded by America.

What do the Muslim extremist/freedom fighters (whatever way you look at it) want?

Well, lets ignore the Palestinian fighters and I think you mean more global terrorists. I would say the only really way you're gonna find out is talking to them, not blowing a country up. It might be a useful start.

The rest of your post seems to say examples of Middle East countries not helping other countries out and so are to blame. Yes Saudi should help other countries. I personally don't know how much they help, if at all, and if they don't all I can say is perhaps they should. Sadaam, because he wasn't nice I agree, whats new, they aren'y nice people in lots of places. So, I agree. They should actively help out. But there is a difference between not helping and actively changing regimes, invading countries and changing the balance of military power of a region.

I know you keep saying they are 'rich' but there wealth cannot be compared to the likes of america. America has huge amount of money and has ALREADY developed its infrastructure (not completely, but you get what I mean). The amount of Palestinian refugees some of the neighbouring countries receive is immense. It may appear selfish, but many don't have a huge amount of money to sort everything out. The number of Palestinians coming to America compared to refugees in neighbouring countries is tiny. They have to deal with many and they are nowhere near as rich as USA.

Why do they ask for aid from America? Because they have lots of money, they are the biggest power in the world, and they believe that considering they can give 2 billion just on arms to israel, it seems strange they dont receive more help.

Any other questions, or remarks and I'll try to argue... perhaps incorrectly but I'll try ;D

[Khan]

I'm more inclined towards boxer's position and perspective. The problem is not the US or the west in general; we muslims have been our own worst enemy. We were the ones that allied ourselves with the British and overthrew Ottomans from power, destroying our chance to continue to live under one islamic nation. It has been the GREED of those kings (tyrants really) in many islamic nations that has lead to soo much chaos (King Ibn Saud, founder of Saudi Arabia chose a US based oil company to start drilling for oil, why not hire a local company to do the job?)

We whine and whine and complain and complain. So far thats all ive seen from our governments. NO Action. And blame the US. But when we need help, who do we turn to? our own? nope. the US. Kosovo, the US was hailed as a Savior. but iraq has changed all that. Lets say the US didnt' invade iraq, then saddam would still be in a palace and not in the crap hole that they found him in. and by the way, why didn't any of our islamic countries intervene when WE KNEW WHAT SADDAM was doing to his people?!!?!? Its like a father abusing his wife and children, and his neigbors doing nothing about it. WE NEED TO FIGHT OUR OWN WARS, stop being sallies and fight for our own people!

We didn't intervene in iraq, or Chechnya or Kosovo, etc. what should we expect???

the bottom line: we need to stop blaming and whining and complaining and take action.

and i remind myself first.

[JP]

Are you really the "mightiest nation ever to exist" mr "time to bomb saddam"? The British Empire controlled over 35% of the planet. Including Iraq, half of Africa, most of asia (that;s the bit with India in), chunks of China and some other really good bits. It ran this empire with less than a quarter of the population of the USA. The US army is stuck in Iraq and Afghanistan and has no capacity or ability to fight elsewhere. A pretty piss poor effort. Furthermore, we gave the empire back peacefully after educating the locals and teaching them football and cricket. Football (played with the foot) is the best barometer of British success as an empire builder. Gridiron is played by no other country as it is gay. Face it, no one likes you (USA), you have a pissy little empire that you are even embarrassed to call an empire and China will take over in a few years as the world's most militarily powerful nation. At that point everyone will laugh and you won't have a commonwealth, because you are all so boring that no one will be your mates..... Why is the south of Iraq (where the Brits are) peaceful and your bit so f**ked up?