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Post by PeaceLuvHarmony on Aug 23, 2004 12:38:52 GMT -5
Asalaamualikum,
I would jus like us to ask ourselves...do we try and follow the prophet mohammad (SAW) noble charcter as much as we can ?
This was one of the major influential aspects that invited people to recognise the truth...by recognises how noble, wise, humble and just the inviter was.
Michael H. Hart's book The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History. He ranks prophet mohammad as number 1.
As He saw was supremely successful as a leader in both in terms of religion and politics.
"Since his day, in every region of the earth and during every period, this Noble Prophet has been followed by individuals from all races, colors and peoples. Many of those who followed him were previously Christians, Jews, pagans, idolaters, or without any religion. Among those who chose to follow him, were those who were known for their sound judgment, wisdom, reflection, and foresight. They chose to follow this Noble Prophet after they witnessed the signs of his truthfulness and the evidences of his miracles. They did not choose to follow Muhammad out of compulsion or coercion or because they had adopted the ways of their fathers and mothers. "
dear brothers and sisters it is through patience and by adopting those characterisitcs of which "justness" for all, that we can counteract the islamophobia that is being portrayed in this day and age.
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Post by PeaceLuvHarmony on Aug 24, 2004 11:52:25 GMT -5
From the 100, a Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History by Michael H. Hart
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My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world's most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular levels. Of humble origins, Muhammad founded and promulgated one of the world's great religions, and became an immensely effective political leader. Today, thirteen centuries after his death, his influence is still powerful and pervasive. The majority of the persons in this book had the advantage of being born and raised in centers of civilization, highly cultured or politically pivotal nations. Muhammad, however, was born in the year 570, in the city of Mecca, in southern Arabia, at that time a backward area of the world, far from the centers of trade, art, and learning. Orphaned at age six, he was reared in modest surroundings. Islamic tradition tells us that he was illiterate. His economic position improved when, at age twenty-five, he married a wealthy widow. Nevertheless, as he approached forty, there was little outward indication that he was a remarkable person. Most Arabs at that time were pagans, who believed in many gods. There were, however, in Mecca, a small number of Jews and Christians; it was from them no doubt that Muhammad first learned of a single, omnipotent God who ruled the entire universe. When he was forty years old, Muhammad became convinced that this one true God (Allah) was speaking to him, and had chosen him to spread the true faith. For three years, Muhammad preached only to close friends and associates. Then, about 613, he began preaching in public. As he slowly gained converts, the Meccan authorities came to consider him a dangerous nuisance. In 622, fearing for his safety, Muhammad fled to Medina (a city some 200 miles north of Mecca), where he had been offered a position of considerable political power. This flight, called the Hegira, was the turning point of the Prophet's life. In Mecca, he had had few followers. In Medina, he had many more, and he soon acquired an influence that made him a virtual dictator. During the next few years, while Muhammad s following grew rapidly, a series of battles were fought between Medina and Mecca. This was ended in 630 with Muhammad's triumphant return to Mecca as conqueror. The remaining two and one-half years of his life witnessed the rapid conversion of the Arab tribes to the new religion. When Muhammad died, in 632, he was the effective ruler of all of southern Arabia. The Bedouin tribesmen of Arabia had a reputation as fierce warriors. But their number was small; and plagued by disunity and internecine warfare, they had been no match for the larger armies of the kingdoms in the settled agricultural areas to the north. However, unified by Muhammad for the first time in history, and inspired by their fervent belief in the one true God, these small Arab armies now embarked upon one of the most astonishing series of conquests in human history. To the northeast of Arabia lay the large Neo-Persian Empire of the Sassanids; to the northwest lay the Byzantine, or Eastern Roman Empire, centered in Constantinople. Numerically, the Arabs were no match for their opponents. On the field of battle, though, the inspired Arabs rapidly conquered all of Mesopotamia, Syria, and Palestine. By 642, Egypt had been wrested from the Byzantine Empire, while the Persian armies had been crushed at the key battles of Qadisiya in 637, and Nehavend in 642.
But even these enormous conquests-which were made under the leadership of Muhammad's close friends and immediate successors, Abu Bakr and 'Umar ibn al-Khattab -did not mark the end of the Arab advance. By 711, the Arab armies had swept completely across North Africa to the Atlantic Ocean There they turned north and, crossing the Strait of Gibraltar, overwhelmed the Visigothic kingdom in Spain. For a while, it must have seemed that the Moslems would overwhelm all of Christian Europe. However, in 732, at the famous Battle of Tours, a Moslem army, which had advanced into the center of France, was at last defeated by the Franks. Nevertheless, in a scant century of fighting, these Bedouin tribesmen, inspired by the word of the Prophet, had carved out an empire stretching from the borders of India to the Atlantic Ocean-the largest empire that the world had yet seen. And everywhere that the armies conquered, large-scale conversion to the new faith eventually followed. Now, not all of these conquests proved permanent. The Persians, though they have remained faithful to the religion of the Prophet, have since regained their independence from the Arabs. And in Spain, more than seven centuries of warfare 5 finally resulted in the Christians reconquering the entire peninsula. However, Mesopotamia and Egypt, the two cradles of ancient civilization, have remained Arab, as has the entire coast of North Africa. The new religion, of course, continued to spread, in the intervening centuries, far beyond the borders of the original Moslem conquests. Currently it has tens of millions of adherents in Africa and Central Asia and even more in Pakistan and northern India, and in Indonesia. In Indonesia, the new faith has been a unifying factor. In the Indian subcontinent, however, the conflict between Moslems and Hindus is still a major obstacle to unity. How, then, is one to assess the overall impact of Muhammad on human history? Like all religions, Islam exerts an enormous influence upon the lives of its followers. It is for this reason that the founders of the world's great religions all figure prominently in this book . Since there are roughly twice as many Christians as Moslems in the world, it may initially seem strange that Muhammad has been ranked higher than Jesus. There are two principal reasons for that decision. First, Muhammad played a far more important role in the development of Islam than Jesus did in the development of Christianity. Although Jesus was responsible for the main ethical and moral precepts of Christianity (insofar as these differed from Judaism), St. Paul was the main developer of Christian theology, its principal proselytizer, and the author of a large portion of the New Testament. Muhammad, however, was responsible for both the theology of Islam and its main ethical and moral principles. In addition, he played the key role in proselytizing the new faith, and in establishing the religious practices of Islam. Most of these utterances were copied faithfully during Muhammad's lifetime and were collected together in authoritative form not long after his death. The Koran therefore, closely represents Muhammad's ideas and teachings and to a considerable extent his exact words. No such detailed compilation of the teachings of Christ has survived. Since the Koran is at least as important to Moslems as the Bible is to Christians, the influence of Muhammed through the medium of the Koran has been enormous It is probable that the relative influence of Muhammad on Islam has been larger than the combined influence of Jesus Christ and St. Paul on Christianity. On the purely religious level, then, it seems likely that Muhammad has been as influential in human history as Jesus. Furthermore, Muhammad (unlike Jesus) was a secular as well as a religious leader. In fact, as the driving force behind the Arab conquests, he may well rank as the most influential political leader of all time. Of many important historical events, one might say that they were inevitable and would have occurred even without the particular political leader who guided them. For example, the South American colonies would probably have won their independence from Spain even if Simon Bolivar had never lived. But this cannot be said of the Arab conquests. Nothing similar had occurred before Muhammad, and there is no reason to believe that the conquests would have been achieved without him. The only comparable conquests in human history are those of the Mongols in the thirteenth century, which were primarily due to the influence of Genghis Khan. These conquests, however, though more extensive than those of the Arabs, did not prove permanent, and today the only areas occupied by the Mongols are those that they held prior to the time of Genghis Khan. It is far different with the conquests of the Arabs. From Iraq to Morocco, there extends a whole chain of Arab nations united not merely by their faith in Islam, but also by their Arabic language, history, and culture. The centrality of the Koran in the Moslem religion and the fact that it is written in Arabic have probably prevented the Arab language from breaking up into mutually unintelligible dialects, which might otherwise have occurred in the intervening thirteen centuries. Differences and divisions between these Arab states exist, of course, and they are considerable, but the partial disunity should not blind us to the important elements of unity that have continued to exist. For instance, neither Iran nor Indonesia, both oil-producing states and both Islamic in religion, joined in the oil embargo of the winter of 1973-74. It is no coincidence that all of the Arab states, and only the Arab states, participated in the embargo. We see, then, that the Arab conquests of the seventh century have continued to play an important role in human history, down to the present day. It is this unparalleled combination of secular and religious influence which I feel entitles Muhammad to be considered the most influential single figure in human history.
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Post by Starjade on Aug 26, 2004 5:25:31 GMT -5
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Post by PeaceLuvHarmony on Aug 26, 2004 11:04:30 GMT -5
For those that wish to see the truth sincerely with their hearts...will once having read the qur'aan and read abut the prophet mohammad pbuh's life will FEEL the truth undescribebly there is a natural inclination to the truth. For those wanting to spread false lies and merely express baseless satements without evidence it is thier loss...and no harm can they do to almighty God in the least...for they willone day return to their lord and God will judge amongst them.
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Post by Starjade on Aug 27, 2004 5:46:02 GMT -5
Sura 4:82. Do they not consider the Koran with care for if it had come from any other than Allah they would surely have found much discrepancy therein. There is a challenge going about that is open to all Muslims and non Muslims. It says that in 1400 years Nobody has ever found Errors found in the Koran. Well guess again that propaganda does not work on me,. I was challenged by a Muslim to find errors in the Koran. I wrote out 21 errors in the Koran. (they are still undisputed) Starjades 21 errors found in the Koran. www.geocities.com/end_of_times/surahfoureighthytwo.html Here is another link to other errors in the Koran. Pge. 11 islamiway.proboards12.com/index.cgi?board=general&thread=1085056718&action=display&start=150 Now if one error is found in the Koran then that is proof that the Koran did not come from God. So then you have a Koran then go and check out those errors I have mentioned and you should know enough about the religion of Islam to be able to see that Starjades errors are undisputed. And will remain that way. Then come online and say and admit that those errors do exist in the Koran. Do not shirk away from the truth but be a man and answer the Question do those errors exist in the Koran. When you dare if you do to reply remind yourself that if you answer and admit that those errors do exist in the Koran. (and we already all know they do) Then this means the Koran did not come from God. And that means the word of Muhammad has then been proven to be untrue and not trustworthy as you once claimed. That also brings out the point regarding this angel Gabriel and the claims Muhammad has made regarding this supposed angel. We already know that Gabriel originated in a dream that Daniel had had whiles in a deep sleep and Gabriel was only called an angel by the disciples of Jesus who are promoting their self appointed false Prophet as being that very Prophet that god promised Moses he would raise up. That same Prophet that Muhammad has been claiming himself to be. So when you promote Muhammad to the congregation in idolatry be aware that the things you are saying are and have been proven to be untrue.
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Post by PeaceLuvHarmony on Aug 27, 2004 13:20:45 GMT -5
peace
There are no errors in the qur'aan, but you are a lost sole.
Where is your evidence prophet mohammad saw said jesus was that prophet...?? baseless statements..
i can say something controversial like hey the world is gonna end tomorrow because i had a dream God told me in my dream...But that does notmake it the truth but that makes me a liar and makes me delusional.
There are no errors in the quraan the errors are in your mind...because as the above analogy you are making baseless opinated statements that does not make them factual.
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Post by Starjade on Aug 31, 2004 4:04:20 GMT -5
Posts: 22 PeaceLuvHarmony you said: There are no errors in the qur'aan, but you are a lost sole. Starjade says: Well then that is good for you the false Prop[het worshipper to ignore the truth and pretend the whole world fits into your shallow delsuionary realities that you invent for yourself. But for any real thinker who is not afraid of the truth then click the following link which will take you to a thread where well over 50 errors are displayed and PeaceLuvHarmony says that these very real errors do not exist. . Even though the link will takje you to where errors in the Koran are displayed and no Muslim on earth is in any position to argue against those facts. So like PeaceLuvHarmony you just better bury your shallow heads in the sand from the shame of it. islamiway.proboards12.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1085056718 PeaceLuvHarmony you said: Where is your evidence prophet mohammad saw said jesus was that prophet...?? baseless statements.. Starjade says: In case you had not noticed But Muhammad has already been proven to be a false Prophet very easilt. It is very clear he was not a Prophet from God. But Mad Muhammad did believe in Jesus and the Koran does agree that Jesus is the Prophet form God that Jesus claimed himself to be. But Muhammad and the Muslims who wrote the Koran did not know that Jesus was claiming to be that Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up. That is a Christian religion view of Jesus and who Jesus was and who Jesus has claimed himself to be. So Muhammad made that error of religious ignorance as he and the Koran promoted a belief in Jesus when all along Jesus had claimed hi8mself to be that Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up. Which as you know is the same Prophet that Muhammad himself has proclaimed him self to be. That is one of the biggest errors in the Koran. And the biggest fumblings by Mad Muhammad. So that you are educated in the Christian beliefs in Jesus and so you can see that the Christians all believe Jesus when Jesus claimed that he was that Prophet from God and so you are made aware that this is the Christians religion and beliefs then here is another link talking on the very claims of Jesus and those Christians. So Muhammad did claim Jesus to be a Prophet from God but it is that lack of Knowledge of the Christians religions that causes Muslims to run foul and be caught out in a lie for Jesus had already proclaimed himself to be that Prophet God promised Moses he would raise up. Muhammad did not say Jesus was that Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up but Jesus did and so do the Christians. p074.ezboard.com/fdesivoicefrm45.showMessage?topicID=455.topic PeaceLuvHarmony you said: i can say something controversial like hey the world is gonna end tomorrow because i had a dream God told me in my dream...But that does notmake it the truth but that makes me a liar and makes me delusional. Starjade says: I can already see your lies and delusions and never listen to those Dreamers. PeaceLuvHarmony you said: There are no errors in the quraan the errors are in your mind...because as the above analogy you are making baseless opinated statements that does not make them factual. Starjade says: I have left a thread here as you well know that you are shirking. The thread is called Errors in the Koran and are a part of many world wide conversations. Here are some of those errors that prove that Errors do exist in the Koran and all Muslims on earth are shirking those errors. 1. In sura 2:142-144, we find the change of the Qibla, the direction of prayer from Mecca to Jerusalem, and back to Mecca. 2. The inheritance laws in suras 4:7; & 2:180, provides an equal share for women and men, and then is doubled for men in sura 4:11. 3. The change of night prayers from a full night in sura 73:2-4, to a half or less, or whatever was easy to do in sura 73:20. 4. The change of punishment for adulteresses, beginning with life imprisonment, found in sura 4:15, and then changed to 100 strokes by flogging, according to sura 24:2. Remember that these two examples make no mention of the previous 'missing' aya which prescribes the stoning for those who commit adultery. It is also interesting to note that Homosexuals were let off if they repented, according to sura 4:16, though this same allowance was not given for heterosexuals. 5. The change of the retaliation laws where retaliation for the crime (murder) was confined to people of equal rank (i.e. slave for slave) in sura 2:178, then it was to be carried out only against the murderer by the heir, sura 17:33 (note: Ali adds Qisas and forgiving to the Arabic). 6. The change of the days of creation from 6 (7:54; 25:59) to 8 (41:9- 12). 7. The change of the hierarchy of prophets, where they were initially equal (suras 3:84;2:285;2:136) and then some are elevated above the others, sura 2;253 (see Ali's note:289). 8. The changes in intercession; at first done by angels and Muhammad (suras 42:5; 24:62), and then were not acceptable to Allah (suras 74:48; 63:5; 34:23). 9. The Sword verses: the Call to "fight and slay the pagan (idolaters) wherever you find them" (sura 9:5); or "strike off their heads in battle" (sura 47:5); or "make war on the unbeliever in Allah, until they pay tribute" (sura 9:29); or "Fight then... until the religion be all of it Allah's" (sura 8:39); or "a grievous penalty against those who reject faith" (sura 9:3). These all contradict "There is no compulsion in religion" (sura 2:256). 10 .Sura 2:184 first allows a rich man to buy himself out of the fast by feeding an indigent. The following verse (185) allows no compensation. 11. Widows were to keep themselves apart for 4 months and 10 days after their husband's death (sura 2:234), which is then changed to one year (2:240). 12. Sura 2:106 contradicts sweeping changes which follow: in the Qibla (vss.115,177,124-151), pilgrimage rites (vs.158), dietary laws (vss.168-174) law of talio (vss.178-179), in bequests (vss.180-182), the fast (vss.182-187), and the pilgrimage again (vss.196-203). 13. Sura 16:101 contradicts changes which follow in dietary laws (vss.114-119), and in the Sabbath laws (vs.124). 14. Muhammad will not forget the revelations which Allah gives him (sura 87:6-7), is then changed to withdrawing that which Allahs wills to withdraw (i.e. revelations) (17:86). 15. Allah commits himself as law to act mercifully, which implies cause and effect (sura 6:12), yet later in the same sura we find that "If Allah willed, he could have brought them all together to the guidance... Whom Allah will he sendeth astray, and whom he will he placeth on a straight path" (vss. 35 & 39). 16. Concerning predestination, in sura 57:22 we find the words, "No evil befalls on the earth, nor on your own souls but it is in a book before We bring into existence." And in sura 76:29-31 it says, "..whosoever will may choose a way unto his Lord, Yet ye will not, unless Allah willeth... He maketh whom He will to enter His mercy..." Both of these contradict sura 42:30, which states, "Whatever of misfortune striketh you, it is what your right hands have earned." 17. In sura 5:82, Pagans and Jews are considered the furthest from Muslims, while Christians are the nearest, yet in sura 5:51 & 57 Muslims are told not to have Christians as friends. Interestingly, in the same verse (51) it comments that Jews and Christians are friends, yet the only thing they have in common is their agreement on the authenticity of the Old Testament. 18. Muhammad was the first to bow down to Allah (i.e. the first Muslim) (sura 6:14,164; 39:12). Yet these passages forget that Abraham, his sons and Jacob were former Muslims (sura 2:132) as were all the earlier prophets (sura 28:52-53), and Jesus' disciples (3:52). 19. Allah curses all liars, yet permits Muhammad to break an oath (sura 66:1-2), and though Allah alone may be worshipped, he demands Satan and the angels to worship Adam, with the result that Satan is eternally punished because he refused to do so (sura 2:32). 20. An abrogation evidenced by Muslims today is the claim that the Bible (which they admit is a revealed book) has been altered and corrupted. Yet sura 10:65 reads, "There is no changing in the Words of Allah," and sura 6:33,34 reads, "There is none that can alter the decisions (revelations) of Allah." 21. In sura 17:101 we find 9 plagues (or signs), whereas in sura 7:133 only 5 are listed (note Ali's footnote no.1091 which adds the rod and leprous hand from verses 107 and 108, as well as the drought and short crops of verse 130 as plagues, to make up the nine). 22. In sura 51:57 we find that Jinn were created to worship Allah, yet in sura 7:176 we find that the Jinn were created for Hell. 23. In sura 17:103 we are told that Pharaoh was drowned with his army, yet in sura 10:90-92, upon admitting to the power of God, he is rescued as a sign to others. 2. Starjade says: These are just a few errors there are reputed to be some 500 errors in the Koran. Plus there are the undisputed Starjades errors in the Koran. So that all makes you wrong then doesn’t it. ?
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Post by Peaceluvharmony on Aug 31, 2004 18:16:14 GMT -5
As i said eveything needs to be placed and regarded in context...which u r taking out of context..the qur'aan translation comes with a tafsir "explanation" of the verses of the quraan...so if u wanna sincerely find out truth read the the tafsir ul realise the truth...but hey i guess pple like u r jus out for abit of fame i guess ur perspective is that u dnt giv a toss well thats fine.
The people that knw prophet Mohammad pbuh's life and knw that he was the most just person in the world and know that he was a mercy to the universe are gettin the benefit cos as i sed they can feel the beuty of the truth (as was identified by the non muslim michael Hart and many others). As for the people who fail to seek knowledge even if merely out of intereset they r the loosers...time will tell.
U with urs and us with ours...time will tell!!
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Post by Starjade on Sept 2, 2004 4:52:31 GMT -5
Peaceluvharmony you said: U r completely taking things out of context...a tafsir "explanation" is needed to understand the verses of the qur'aan. when you take things out of context obviously everything becomes false. so its not a s simple as u make it out to be.
Starjade says: Peaceluvharmony your another Shirker a Kuffar of the truth. I have named many errors existing in the Koran some also with Suras. So do those errors exist in the Koran. The fact is they do exist in the Koran. Nothing is taken out of contex but all your replies are feeble excuses. The reason why that is is clear, you are not able to argue against common sense.
Sura 4:82 says: Do they not consider the Koran with care for if it had come from any other than Allah then surely they would have found much discrepancy therein. And as that Sura clearly says: If errors are found in the Koran than that is proof that the Koran did not come from God. The matter is very clear and that Challenge is for anyone to test themselves and Islam with.
Well I have Challenged Islam and in front of your faces and I won and Islam lost. The Sura 4:82 showed the way. And you now make excuses up for the statements made in that Sura. Why not be a man and come online and say Yes Starjade I looked those errors up and they do exist in the Koran. Why are you so afraid of the truth. Is it because of the inevitable outcome of that revelation. For if the Koran did not come from God then Muhammads word is proven to be untrustworthy. And imagine that then. And things are as simple as they are. In fact the matter of proving the Koran did not come from God is something I found too easy.
Now you can ignore the Islamic law that I have invoked and the Sura 4:82 and continue to worship and promote the worship of a proven false Prophet who did not come from God and who was presumptuous to think he could speak in Gods name. But if you do then that is Blasphemy to the one true Living God. For the Living God has said we must not follow false prophets or false Gods. And with Muhammad proven to be a fraud. The you worship the God of Muhammads own ideals and imaginations of what he wants his god to be like. Then where is your Salvation.
Peaceluvharmony you said: Prophet moses was told there will be a prophet who will come that will speak the word of God...prophet jesus was sent with a book it was all reveled in totality...
Starjade says: Yes Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15. That is where that prophecy of the prophet God promised he would raise up is written. And you and I both know that Muhammad has claimed himself to be that very prophet don’t we. That is something that we both know. It is Islamic history and a known fact that Muhammad has claimed that he is that specific Prophet in fact you also believe his word was true.
And then you speak of Jesus. Now I also know of Christianity and I know that the Prophet that Jesus has claimed himself to be is that very specific Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up.
You and I both know that Muhammad believed in jesus and considered jesus to be that prophet Jesus was acclaimed as being. But he was unaware as are many Muslims. That the Prophet that Jesus and his disciples claimed Jesus to be is that Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up.
The Koran has 11 chapters all glorifying Jesus as being a Prophet. But it is not a Christian religion and its writers did not know the Christians all claim that Jesus is that Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up. Now it cannot be possible for Jesus and Muhammad to be the same person and so one or the other or both must be lying and mistaken.
Yet Old testament law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 is a religious witness law that determines matters of the truth. And the fact is that both Jesus and Muhammad have no witnesses to their claims and none of their Testimonies can be established by old Testament law. As both Jesus and Muhammad are claimed to be descendants of Abraham then that Old Testament law binds them both. That law how ever proves that they are both frauds. And what is this book you say Jesus came with as it is not known in Christianity. As for the claimed book the Koran well the Sura 4:82 shows that is of mans invention. And should you read Chapter 29 of Isaiah you can see why Muhammad made the Cave claims that he did and being so unlearned even though Islamic History shows Muhammad was more learned than Muslims claim.
Peaceluvharmony you said: prophet mohammad pbuh was sent revelations that he used to speak onto the people who used to make a record of wot was sed...after teh dath of the prophet pbuh then all of it was gathered together and compiled into a book.
Starjade says: Well first the Sura 4:82 shows the Koran did not come from God but was of mans invention. So whiles Muhammad had an audience to voice his opinions. His opinions are not revelations. If you read all my writing here in this forum and the many like it around the world then you would see what real Revelations are. Look at those many errors in the Koran for instance isn’t that a revelation.
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Post by Peaceluvharmony on Sept 2, 2004 14:26:48 GMT -5
Why do you think there is a tafseer that is required to understnad the qur'aan? its because people dnt get misled and assume things as you have.
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Post by Starjade on Sept 3, 2004 5:54:44 GMT -5
There is no confusion there are in fact many errors existing in the Koran and i have shown many to you. It is unacceptable by me that you shirk those errors and i remind you i invoked Islamic law wich binds you as a Muslim. that law says if you know something that is not true you must be unafraid and stand up and state it. The matter will then be discussed and whatever is found to be true will be accepted as being true and whatever is found to be false will be rejected as being false.
Now there is no misunderstanding on my part nor is there any misunderstanding on your part. You looked at those errors and i just bet you went and checked them aginst the statements in the Koran and you found that those errors did exist. All Muslims are taught to memorise the Koran and so you all know those errors exist. Now you must reject the Koran and the word of the false Prophet Muhammad because islamic law says you must. If you do not themn you are a gfalse Prophet worshipper and the follower and worshipper of a God of that false Prophets imagination. That makes you knowingly guilty of Blasphemyu against the Living God of Abraham and of Moses and of Starjade.
Now stop coming up with excuses and face these issues like a man. realise you have been decieved by your religious preachers and grow up with that knowledge and my revelations.
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Post by Peaceluvharmony on Sept 3, 2004 11:31:35 GMT -5
The muslims know what the muslims know and it is of such value theyd die defending it...muslims will never waver in their religion cos it is a religion of purity and truth and peace and u feel it with ur heart!
A great saint once said...only if the kings and great people knew what the muslims feel...theyd try to take it with their swords.
Meaning only if the non muslims knew how at peace the muslim feels when he/she prays, and follows islam theyd want it so badly theyd fight for it.
There is ample evidence around the world that islam is a true religion...again i say to u the quraan has no errors u r regarding it out of context...those who misinterpret the qur'aan get led astray...so its v imp to b able to undrstand it using the full explanation given by the prophet saw and great scholars of the past.
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Post by Starjade on Sept 4, 2004 6:07:07 GMT -5
Peaceluvharmony you said: The muslims know what the muslims know and it is of such value theyd die defending it...muslims will never waver in their religion cos it is a religion of purity and truth and peace and u feel it with ur heart!
Starjade says: Well then answering to the Sura 4:82 should be a piece of cake for you so then why are you shirking that task. If that religion was pure then how come its founder Muhammad has been caught out in a lie that proves his word is untrue. Muslims do think they know but when it is brought under discussion it is clear that Muslims are not knowing anything except what some other person who is a proven liar has been telling them. Now go answer to the Sura 4:82.
Peaceluvharmony you said: A great saint once said...only if the kings and great people knew what the muslims feel...theyd try to take it with their swords.
Starjade says: I note you do not name this saint and all saints are of Roman Catholic invention are you sure your following the right religion as those Christians are false Prophet worshippers also. It must be so nice for you Muslims to glorify yourselves and your religion. Too bad that the Sura 4:82 proves that your religion is false. And if you have not been paying attention to the News. Others are not using swords to take Islam they use tanks and bombs and planes and missiles and they can even use Nukes to take Islam. But it is clear they have a religion of their own as they are called Christians and so they are taking islam OK but with the intent on its destruction. Islam is now considered world wide as a nest bed of Terrorists. Hardly the reflection that you would have us believe but then we read the news and can draw our own opinion.
Peaceluvharmony you said: Meaning only if the non muslims knew how at peace the muslim feels when he/she prays, and follows islam theyd want it so badly theyd fight for it.
Starjade says: It must be coy for you to live in those delusions. I suggest you put on a telly and watch it sometime. Muslims world wide are living an accursed life. They are not at peace but at war and world wide. And people usually get born into religion and so as each convinces themselves that they are right then each will glorify his own religion and advise other to join them. Just as you are doing.
Peaceluvharmony you said: There is ample evidence around the world that islam is a true religion...again i say to u the quraan has no errors u r regarding it out of context...those who misinterpret the qur'aan get led astray...so its v imp to b able to undrstand it using the full explanation given by the prophet saw and great scholars of the past.
Starjade says: There is ample evidence in this thread to show that the religion of Islam is a Golden Calf moulded by the Arabs. Sura 4:82 says if any errors exist in the Koran then the Koran did not come from God.
Muhammad claimed the sun set in a pool of muddy water. He claimed the earth was flat. He said that thunder was made by angels. Muhammad claimed a lot of things. He also claimed that he was that Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up. He said Moses and Isaiah had been writing about him referring to the coming of that Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up. Muhammad also believed in Jesus and claimed Jesus was the Prophet that Jesus claimed himself to be. And the Koran glorifies Jesus in 11 chapters of the Koran confirming the belief that Jesus was the Prophet that Jesus claimed himself to be.
What Muhammad did not know is that the Prophet Jesus claimed himself to be was that very Prophet that the Living God promised Moses he would raise up. All Christians testify to that claim and Jesus said that Moses and Isaiah had been writing about Jesus. (not Muhammad)
So that is the biggest error in the Koran and you are ignoring those errors and showing the world what being brainwashed can do for you. Now Sura 4:82 says if one just one error is found in the Koran then this is proof that the Koran did not come from God. Jesus and Muhammad both claiming themselves to be the very same Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up. Is a very big error. But a bigger error is in the proclamations of Muhammad who says that Jesus is the Prophet that Jesus has claimed himself to be and even more of an error is in the Koran glorifying Jesus with that same belief.
As a Muslim you know as I know that Muhammad has claimed himself to be that specific Prophet. So many errors exist in the Koran right there. You can close off your mind to these fact but they will not go away. I am speaking on other forums about those very errors and Christians and Jews are soaking up that revelation and Muslims are converting. That shows you are in a delusion. Sura 4:82 shows the Koran did not come from God and it shows the word of Muhammad cannot be trusted. You can ignore those facts but you cannot escape them.
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Post by Peaceluvharmony on Sept 4, 2004 7:34:39 GMT -5
many people have commented in the other thread and have proved you wrong...we dnt need to justify the truthy it speaks for itself.
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Post by Harish on Sept 4, 2004 7:39:30 GMT -5
Twelve Proofs that Muhammad is a True Prophet Shaykh `Abdul Rahman `Abdul Khaliq Originally published by IANA --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My brothers and sisters everywhere! With this essay, I am not singling out the adherents of Islam - to which I ascribe - but rather I am writing this essay to every man and woman throughout the whole world.
I ask Allah that He facilitates tat this essay reaches every ear, falls under the sight of every eye, and is understood by every heart...
Muhammad the son of `Abdullah is Allah's Prophet and the Final Messenger Sent by Allah to the Inhabitants of Earth.
My brothers and sisters everywhere! You should know that the Messenger, Muhammad the son of `Abdullah (may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him) is Allah's Messenger in reality and truth. The evidences that show his veracity are abundant. None but an infidel, who out of arrogance alone, could deny these signs.
Among these proofs:
1. Muhammad (may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him) was raised illiterate, unable to read or write, and remained like that till his death. Among all his people, he was known as being truthful and trustworthy. Before receiving revelation, he had no prior knowledge of Religion or any previously sent Message. He remained like that for his first forty years. Revelation then came to Muhammad with the Koran that we now have between our hands. This Koran mentioned most of the accounts found in the previous scriptures, telling us about these events in the greatest detail as if he witnessed them. These accounts came precisely as they were found in the Torah sent down to Moses and in the Gospel sent down to Jesus. Neither the Jews or Christians were able to belie him regarding anything that he said.
2. Muhammad (may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him) also foretold of everything that would occur to him and his community after him, pertaining to victory, the removal of the tyrannical kingdoms of Chosroes [the royal title for the Zoroastrian kings of Persia] and Caesar, and the establishment of the religion of Islam throughout the earth. These events occurred exactly as Muhammad foretold, as if he was reading the future from an open book.
3. Muhammad (may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him) also brought an Arabic Koran that is the peak of eloquence and clarity. The Koran challenged those eloquent and fluent Arabs of his time, who initially belied him, to bring forth a single chapter like the Koran. The eloquent Arabs of his day were unable to contest this Koran.
Indeed, till our day, none has ever dared to claim that he has been able to compose words that equal-or even approach-the order, grace, beauty, and splendor of this Glorious Koran.
4. The life history of this Noble Prophet was a perfect example of being upright, merciful, compassionate, truthful, brave, generous, distant from all evil character, and ascetic in all worldly matters, while striving solely for the reward of the Hereafter. Moreover, in all his actions and dealings, he was ever mindful and fearful of Allah.
5. Allah instilled great love for Muhammad (may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him) in the hearts of all who believed in and met him. This love reached such a degree that any of his companions would willingly sacrifice his (or her) self, mother or father for him.
Till today, those who believe in Muhammad honor and love him. Anyone of those who believe in him would ransom his own family and wealth to see him, even if but once.
6. All of history has not preserved the biography of any person in the manner it has preserved the life of Muhammad, who is the most influential human in history.
Nor has the entire earth known of anyone whom every morning and evening, and many times thereafter throughout the day, is thought of by those who believe in him. Upon remembering Muhammad, the believers in him will greet him and ask Allah to bless him. They do such with full hearts and true love for him.
7. Nor has there every been a man on earth whom is still followed in all his doings by those who believe in him.
Those who believe in Muhammad, sleep in the manner he slept; purify themselves (through ablution and ritual washing) in the manner he purified himself; and adhere to his practice in the way they eat, drink, and clothe themselves.
Indeed in all aspects of their lives, the believers in Muhammad adhere to the teachings he spread among them and the path that he traveled upon during his life.
During every generation, from his day till our time, the believers in this Noble Prophet have fully adhered to his teachings. With some, this has reached the degree that they desire to follow and adhere to the Prophet's way in his personal matters regarding which Allah has not sought of them to adhere to in worship. For example, some will only eat those specific foods or only wear those specific garments that the Messenger liked.
Let alone all that, all those who believe in Muhammad repeat those praises of Allah, special prayers, and invocations that he would say during each of his actions during day and night, like: what he would say when he greeted people, upon entering and leaving the house, entering and leaving the mosque, entering and leaving the bathroom, going to sleep and awaking from sleep, observing the new crescent, observing the new fruit on trees, eating, drinking, dressing, riding, traveling and returning from travel, etc.
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